Cheers for the advice Greeney i know its not much comparison but I work in the 3.5ton truck business and I've had a couple of near scrapes messing about in transit van chassis cabs, which are rear wheel drive. With no body on the back of them they are very light and can be very twitchy through 1st and 2nd :rolleyes: I'll leave playing about in the BMW till im confident with it.