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paneuro
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hi, i have a code coming up on carly  004501  which as far as I can learn is Exhaust gas recirculation control deviation?  does anybody know what to do or check to fix this as its bringing up an EML and I need an MOT.  I have cleaned the EGR valve , the MAP sensor, and fitted a new modified crank case breather so I don't quite know what to look for next. thanks Paneuro.

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Morning Andrew

Welcome to the Forum

We know it is a 5 series touring but what engine 4 or 6 cylinder? Check all the pipework to/from the manifold the vac-lines can get as clogged as the EGR it is also possible the inlet manifold is clogged (extreme cases). Also check the Vac pump and actuator. I have also read that the servo can cause issues if it has a leak, check the non-return valve at the servo also check the servo body carefully for rust or holes

Hope this helps

Dave

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Thanks for that advice, I'll have to drag the manifold back of to get at the vacuum pipes. The swirl flap actuator and rod are still there although the flaps have been removed so I will remove them as well when I've got the manifold off. I will let you know how it goes. Paneuro.  P.S. can you say how to check the vacuum pump and actuator? and it is a 530d manual.

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Afternoon Andrew

Always faster the second or third time 🤣 Best engine in my opinion.

The vac lines aren't that expensive I would be changing them (save taking the manifold off again, even if it doesn't take long 🤣) My Brother inlaw is on his 5th 5 touring all have gone to around 200k and we have changed EGR's on 3 along with all Vac lines. I could feel Vacuum on my tongue after changing lines.

Other signs of Vac pump problems are, 

  1. Poor fuel efficiency. When a vacuum leak exists, it's most commonly caused by vacuum hoses that are broken, have faulty connections or the vacuum pump is not in operation. 
  2. Brake pedal hard to press. 
  3. Leaking oil under the side of the engine. 
  4. Air conditioning not working.

The servo has a Vacuum pipe attached where it inserts into Servo there is a plastic non return valve if this not working correctly when you press the brake pedal and hold it you will feel it settle/sink. The servo it's self can rust at the bottom you will feel bubbling paint and rust with your fingers if it feels rough or soft the only way is to take it off I am afraid

Dave

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On 10/15/2021 at 5:35 PM, Greydog said:

Afternoon Andrew

Always faster the second or third time 🤣 Best engine in my opinion.

The vac lines aren't that expensive I would be changing them (save taking the manifold off again, even if it doesn't take long 🤣) My Brother inlaw is on his 5th 5 touring all have gone to around 200k and we have changed EGR's on 3 along with all Vac lines. I could feel Vacuum on my tongue after changing lines.

Other signs of Vac pump problems are, 

  1. Poor fuel efficiency. When a vacuum leak exists, it's most commonly caused by vacuum hoses that are broken, have faulty connections or the vacuum pump is not in operation. 
  2. Brake pedal hard to press. 
  3. Leaking oil under the side of the engine. 
  4. Air conditioning not working.

The servo has a Vacuum pipe attached where it inserts into Servo there is a plastic non return valve if this not working correctly when you press the brake pedal and hold it you will feel it settle/sink. The servo it's self can rust at the bottom you will feel bubbling paint and rust with your fingers if it feels rough or soft the only way is to take it off I am afraid

Dave

 

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Hi, I think I have solved the problem. I removed the vacuum pipe from the egr valve but there was no suction there whatsoever so I traced it back to the egr pressure converter solenoid. I have ordered a new one which I think will cure the problem. I will also clean the manifold and the egr valve while its in bits. I will have a good look at the rubber pipes as well. hopefully that will cure my problem. thanks for everybody's advice and I will post the result when its back together. Paneuro.

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Well done Andrew 

Great find with the converter, have you tried testing the power feed to the converter just in case ?? Personally I would change all the vac lines that are under the Manifold for peace of mind.

Dave

PS went through a similar process on our sons Toyota Pickup a couple of years ago it's amazing the amount of soot/crud in there. When we finished it ran like new, he took it out onto the local dual carriageway and when he floored it leaving a roundabout he said the Huge Black Cloud behind him was like a Special Effect from a Harry Potter Film 🤣

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Hi guys, dragged the inlet manifold of and emptied a can of oven cleaner into it , then pressure washed it out and had a look, Then I went for the big guns, a kilo of caustic soda flakes followed by a kettle of boiling water and left it overnight, then another pressure wash. It would be interesting to know how much weight I removed but I did not weigh it before i cleaned it.  Replaced the vacuum lines other than the ones that go to the engine mounts. Fitted the new turbo boost control solenoid and put it all back together. Erased the fault codes with Carly and all is fine no EML.  the only fault I am left with is the air con one and I have a used AUC sensor coming from ebay. Fingers crossed that will cure the last fault code.  Thanks to all who offered advice. Paneuro.

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Hi, I was reading one post on here where Greydog mentioned motor stratification rear right and he was describing where it was located, I have been looking for this but can't seem to find it, could he possibly elaborate on this for me please Thanks Paneuro.

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Morning Andrew

The "Stratification Wheel" (BMW speak for air control wheel) you should have 2 on the dash and the rear ones are on the back of the arm rest between the front seats.

Not all models had the rear seat vents (which will make them hard to find) 

Fingers crossed on the AUC sensor 

Dave

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Hi Greydog, would these be vertical knurled controls, left one on /off and right one hot/cold ? if that's them I have them. I thought they just controlled the rear temperature! I'm still at loss as to why they are throwing up a fault? thanks Paneuro.

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Hi guys, I need to be kept away from sharp objects or a box of matches. The dreaded EML has returned , think this car needs a new owner!!! P-ssed of with a capital P. Paneuro.

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Hi Greydog. ran a test today and the EML light stayed of for about 6/7 miles, then when I stopped and restarted it came back on within 20yards. I tried several times during the days journey (90miles) and every time it just came back on after a few yards. it just says the same as it did before. Exhaust gas recirculation control, control deviation.

The air con again is as it was the first time but I will try cleaning the contact wires tomorrow. thanks Paneuro.

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Morning Andrew

Have you checked the O2 sensors ? While Carly is good it is nowhere near as acurate as BMW 1.4.0 or ISTA?INPA 

What exactly is the Aircon problem ? Does it work? When was it last checked ? 

Dave

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Hi Dave, are these 02 sensors on the exhaust side and how do you go about checking them?

The air con works to a degree, I have re gassed it during the hot spell earlier in the year and 2 days ago fitted a used AUC sensor but it is still throwing up a fault 009C54 as before! 

I have also thought about these more in depth tools like inpa or ista and I do have a spare laptop that is unused  but with my limited knowledge of computers I am nervous I might get myself into more trouble! thanks Paneuro.

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Hi Andrew

You should have 2 O2 sensors one on the DPF and one after the DPF so they can measure the difference between exhaust gas entering the DPF and leaving 

Testing  An O2 sensor will cycle between 0.10 to 0.90 or almost 1 volt. An O2 sensor has to reach the 0.8x Volts amplitude mark while at full operation. An O2 sensor also has to reach the 0.1x Volts amplitude mark while at full operation. (Full operation means the engine is fully warmed up, O2 sensor above the 600 deg.

If the sensors are OK then the DPF may need cleaning or a forced regeneration cycle if you do a regeneration cycle or clean the DPF do an Oil and Filter change as well

As for the program ISTA/INPA will be the one to go for there is plenty of online help setting it up so no worries

Dave

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Hi Dave, when I first got this car the DPF light was on and I was told it was a pressure sensor on the DPF unit. I replaced it with a new one PT no 13627789219-03 but this made no difference whatsoever. It turned out it was the thermostat which was not allowing the car to run at the proper temperature. once I got the engine temperature up I forced a regeneration and all was well after that. It seems to me you just have to keep throwing expensive sensors at these cars until the fault is cured. 

Do you think the INPA/ISTA will be more specific in identifying the problem and if so where can I download it . thanks Paneuro

 

 

 

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Morning Andrew

First when a car throws a fault code sometimes it is a Symptom of the fault not the actual cause of the fault. Companies such as Carly have access to all the Generic BMW codes which is what your seeing.

As an example my X5 is currently showing a Fault with a General scanner which comes up as PDC failure the in car system has 8 sensors (4 front 4 rear) plus the control unit, what is the cause or do you throw money at "expensive sensors" ? INPA and BMW 1.4.0 both tell me the fault code but also identify the fault as Rear Centre Right PDC Sensor at fault. So the specific program has narrowed the fault from the system to a single sensor, but as an engineer I test the sensor either with a tester or simple swap it for the one next door if the problem moves it is the sensor if not it will be with the loom or connector. So before buying sensors I test all the things that could cause the issue and even then see if I can repair it first.

Now to your car while you tell us it is a 2008 5 series Touring I have guessed at 2.0d as the engine which will have an O2 sensor and temperature sensor on the DPF with a second temp sensor just ahead of the Cat. If it is the 6 cylinder 2.5d you will have an O2 sensor and 2 temp sensors on the DPF I would expect the 3.0d to be the same.

I would still test the sensors before "Throwing Money" at it even with an accurate diagnosis. One thing I have learned through our sons Toyota Pickup is after an EGR clean and DPF regen (he carries out lots of short journeys for his work) it needs an oil and filter change it really makes a difference to the length of time before the next occurrence

INPA/ISTA is BMW Dealer level diagnostics plus it contains TIS (Technical Information System) which explains how too change parts.

Just always remember a thermometer will tell you your temperature but not why it is High or Low. that always needs a bit of detective work. Even Dealers fall into the trap of believing the Diagnostic Screen and changing parts as it isn't their money? Often they are working under Warranty sometimes it is the Customer paying rarely the Dealer.

So if you like your BMW and want to keep it, the invest in a good Diagnostic program. My old Lap Top has programs for VW, Mercedes, Volvo, BMW, Toyota and Subaru on it plus I have a Generic reader for the odd Mazda, Ford or Peugeot that turns up on the driveway that belong to family friends and neighbours. But then I am an Old Bloke with a need to know and enjoy BIY Mechanics.

Dave

 

 

 

 

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Hi Dave, my car is a 3litre. 

Regarding the diagnostic program, The downloading and installing these things are way over my head, the only words I understand are the plain English  ones but the other 90% of the computer jargon might as well be in Chinese. thanks Paneuro.

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Hi Dave, I forgot to mention my car is a late 2008 and is an LCI model.

I took the new vacuum pipe of the EGR valve today and cannot detect any suction from it (the rubber pipe I mean) ?  Am I right in thinking there should be suction there?

The reason I asked is you mentioned I should check the voltage at the plug going to the new pressure solenoid I fitted but unfortunately I had refitted the inlet manifold by then. I have checked all the fuses in the glove box and they are all ok. cheers Paneuro.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Morning Andrew

It is impossible for anyone to diagnose the issue without seeing it !! All I or anyone else can do is ask questions 

!. I have to assume (dangerous) that your Vacuum Pump is OK ?

2. Have you changed ALL the vacuum lines from the pump, the main line and sub lines to the EGR via it's controller to the Inlet manifold and its controller?

3. Have you checked the EGR cooling and Thermostat.

At what engine revs/temperature does the EGR begin to operate (ie: Vacuum actuator open) Get the car diagnosed by someone with a BMW specific program if you can't do it yourself or you will be throwing money and time at the car.

Why do suspect the Vacuum feed to the EGR ? Your earlier Post seemed to indicate you have an EML light on which could be the O2 sensor (what miles has it covered) have you checked the O2 sensor ?

Dave

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Hi Dave, if the vacuum pump was faulty surely it would affect the brakes?

I renewed all the rubber vacuum pipes with the exception of the ones going to the engine mounts.

I removed the inlet manifold and cleaned it out, also the EGR valve.

I renewed the EGR pressure control solenoid.

I then cleared the faults and the EML stayed out for Around 20 miles? Surely I must have done something right?

I beginning to think I need help and not the car. cheers Paneuro.

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